I said, Well, they say that you're a psychopath.

So I did.

And he said, What?

You know what, Jon?

Because you shouldn't define people by their maddest edges.

The other guy becomes an institutionalized psychopath.

So there's 1,500 people in his room.

He's an unfortunate boy.

And then I realized that becoming a psychopath spotter had kind of turned me a little bit psychopathic.

So, here's the statistics

And his clinician said to me, If you want to know more about psychopaths, you can go on a psychopath spotting course run by Robert Hare, who invented the psychopath checklist.

I went on a psychopath spotting course, and I am now a certified and I have to say, extremely adept psychopath spotter.

The big story, he said, is corporate psychopathy.

I thought to myself, well I'm not going to put that in my book.

However, we have assessed him, and we've determined that what he is is a psychopath.

He said, Why haven't you been returning my calls?

And I said, Well, but why didn't he hang out with the other patients?

I said, Could I come and interview you in prison, to find out it you're psychopaths?

So all the things that had seemed most normal about Tony was evidence, according to his clinician, that he was mad in this new way.

Although that figure rises to four percent of CEOs and business leaders, so I think there's a very good chance there's about 30 or 40 psychopaths in this room.

And in fact, faking madness is exactly the kind of cunning and manipulative act of a psychopath.

So when you say you feel remorse for your crime, they say, 'Typical of the psychopath to cunningly say he feels remorse when he doesn't.'